The Hotel Investor Playbook

Global Resort Design CEO: Stop Wasting Capex on the Wrong “Upgrades” | Scott LaMont E62

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Boutique hotel investors often lose money in the same place: they renovate what’s visible, and ignore what actually drives guest behavior.


In this episode, we talk about design as a business tool, not a decoration budget. The goal is simple: create a guest experience that feels intentional, sells itself, and supports your NOI, even when you’re operating without brand-level resources.
My guest is Scott LaMont, CEO of EDSA, a globally recognized design and planning firm. Scott and his team work on hospitality projects worldwide, from master planning new destinations to repositioning existing resorts.


You’ll hear:

  • How to “program” spaces so they earn money at different times of day
  • What to look for during acquisition that signals hidden upside
  • Why the lobby is not a pass-through, it’s a profit center
  • How local partnerships create authenticity without big construction costs
  • The infrastructure investments (water, resiliency) owners regret skipping
  • A practical way to use guest reviews as free due diligence

If you’re graduating from Airbnb to your first hotel deal, this episode will help you avoid rookie capex mistakes and make design decisions that actually translate to revenue. Follow and share the Hotel Investor Playbook so more people can learn how to invest in hospitality assets the right way.

About Scott

Scott LaMont is the CEO and Principal of EDSA, a globally recognized planning and landscape architecture firm where he has spent nearly three decades shaping award-winning destinations for brands like Four Seasons and The Ritz-Carlton. An expert in “deconstructed hospitality” and nature-focused design, Scott combines environmental stewardship with pragmatic business planning to drive long-term value and ROI for developers. He leads with a collaborative, human-centered philosophy that integrates emerging technologies like AI to create authentic, immersive guest experiences that connect people with place.

Connect with Scott on Instagram or LinkedIn.

Visit their website: https://www.edsaplan.com 

Learn how to use AI to underwrite faster, streamline operations, automate the busy work, and make better decisions. Start your 7-day free trial of the AI for CRE Collective here.

Connect with Michael on Instagram or LinkedIn.

Email Us at info@hotelinvestorplaybook.com

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Michael Russell:

If you're moving from short-term rentals into your first small hotel, your biggest risk is spending money in the wrong places. This episode shows how arrival choreography and smart space programming can lift revenue without a giant renovation budget, and why copying big brand luxury moves can quietly crush your NOI. Let's dive in.

Speaker:

The Hotel Investor Playbook, your guide to building wealth and freedom through hotel and hospitality ownership.

Michael Russell:

On this podcast, we talk story about everything you need to know to make money investing in hotels and in hospitality assets. My guest today is Scott Lamont, the CEO of EDSA, a world-renowned design and planning firm leading a team of nearly 200 creatives around the globe. His fingerprints are on some of the most iconic hospitality destinations out there: the Four Seasons, the Ritz-Carlton, the St. Regis, and some of the most innovative experiential resorts in the world. Scott, we're so grateful to have you on the show. It's an honor. Welcome to the Hotel Investor Playbook.

Scott LaMont:

Thank you, Michael. Happy to be here.

Michael Russell:

So listen, you've had this incredible global career designing destinations all over the world. But I want to start with something personal. I'd love for you to take us back to a moment, maybe early in your career or even growing up, that made you realize design wasn't just how a place looks, but you know how it makes a person feel.

Scott LaMont:

It's a really compelling question. And it's one that I think about a lot, particularly as I've been in the profession longer. And now I've had a chance to teach more of some of our younger team members and even new people that are coming out of school into the profession, reflecting on this often. But I grew up um here in Florida. You know, EDSA is based in Fort Lauderdale, that's our world headquarters. And so I was a Florida boy. And as a result of that, had an opportunity to visit Disney quite a bit as a kid. And about the time I was around 10, Disney developed Epcot. And so I saw the fact that this was being constructed, and I realized that these magical experiences that I enjoyed as a young child were actually fought up and created and curated, which got me excited about design. Now, of course, that's an experienced person telling that perspective then. And as a kid, it didn't really resonate with me. And landscape architecture is a found profession. So I didn't really connect the dots too much later in life, but it did have a strong influence on me in that we could find a profession where you could create spaces and places that moved people and created those experiences. And that has always just been kind of a fundamental thing. And it is very personal to me. And now, you know, Disney's one of our fun clients that we get to work with. And I draw on those memories often in those engagements. But that's really kind of where it started for me. That's what brought me into the profession.

Michael Russell:

Yeah, that's such an interesting perspective. Because when you go to Disney World, it's it's all about transforming you into a different reality. Main Street USA, it everything looks so curated and so perfect, but it's all intentional. Someone designed everything there. And not just Disney World, but this feeling of emotional reaction to design, I think is really what makes hospitality assets unique. I think that from an investor perspective, like I could look at purchasing industrial warehouse or multifamily apartments, but at a certain point, it the same cookie cutter kitchen, the same tile, the same warehouse, the same, just like figuring out financials. But what's so compelling and so neat about hospitality is designing experiences, especially experiences that people just treasure, that people reflect on. 30 years after a moment or after an experience, you can still like almost taste that experience of a place that's really had an impact on you. And you've worked on some of these really glamorous resorts. I I think I I really want to learn about this, but I think you helped develop a resort down in Punta Mita, Mexico. Is that right?

Scott LaMont:

Yeah, yeah. You've done a lot of work down there.

Michael Russell:

And so when you approach that that Punta Mita project, maybe just kind of shed some light on like how did you weave in some of those cultural aspects so that it's not just like plopping another box hotel in a beautiful location, but really weaving in aspects of nature and culture and all the things that make it memorable.

Scott LaMont:

Well, I think you hit on it. I mean, it's one of the things that I think it makes hospitality as an industry so special, is because it is so bespoke to the place in which we have the opportunity to work. And that's really important to us as land planners, as landscape architects, you know, and to really embrace the sites that we have and you know, take properties in Mexico like Punta Mita, the Noviva project, which I'm assuming you're referring to as most recent endeavor in that marketplace. You know, we really had an opportunity to kind of reconnect with the land and develop something that was a little more bespoke and tied into the specific culture and the environment, you know, and not just from a perspective of checking the boxes on sustainability and making sure we were implementing the best practices, but actually making that part of the narrative and of the story because it's so much more engaging when you visit a place where you feel like you've had a meaningful interaction and truly began to under spear this, understand the spirit or the soul of a place. Those are the things that help us make memories and that leave those lasting impressions that you referred to. And so those types of projects are really enjoyable for us. And put the meat is another great example, too, for us. You know, we worked on it many, many years ago when it was, you know, just a bunch of raw land and had the opportunity to envision a larger master plan of what it could be and how to capitalize on the beauty of that region and find the highest and best use and the best opportunities for all of the great destinations that now exist in that resort area. And so, you know, it really does speak to the diversity of the profession and being able to get out there and draw those experiences forward for our owners and for our guests.

Michael Russell:

Well, you know, actually, I had not pulled this up until now. I just pulled it up online. I'm looking at some of these photos. I mean, it's absolutely stunning. But what is unique about this, I feel like it's low density. Yeah, from an investment perspective, we were conflicted a little bit because we're like, okay, how many bodies can we get to stay here because that equals more money? And you see this all over the place. This is this is luxury, but man, you say bespoke. I don't know exactly how to define the scope bespoke, but I would say that this is for a very cultured traveler that wants to immerse themselves in the jungle but feel the comforts and luxury of a five-star resort and the privacy. And I mean, this is just it's incredible how you were able to carve out just the right amount of hospitality space within the jungle so that it it doesn't feel like it's it's kind of ruined the aesthetic. It's just a really nice balance of luxury and nature. It's incredible.

Scott LaMont:

I was just gonna add, you know, I mean, you're touching on some important themes here, and that is one is it isn't always about, you know, getting the most and the largest opportunity that you can develop on a site. And there is a rise, and I'm sure you're aware, and your and your listeners are aware, there's a rise in ultra-luxury hospitality, right? We're seeing that trend continuing to grow in the marketplace. And this is a great example of a project like that, where it wasn't about how many keys we can fit on this site. It was what's the right amount of fuel to create the experience that we're striving for? How can we bring the local materials into play to make this authentic? Right. So that the seasoned traveler, the you know, the four seasons has a very loyal customer base. There come with that comes an expectation that there's going to be something that is going to be of place. And, you know, and that's not necessarily always translatable to a 12 or 1500 key hotel. That's a different kind of experience. There's plenty of space for that too. I mean, we've had the benefit of working on all the Atlantis properties in the world. They're fantastic resorts, but also successful because you're creating more of an entertainment type experience and you're blending, especially if you're looking at the home, Atlantis, the original Atlantis in Paradise Island, which is just a hop, skip, and a jump here from Fort Lauderdale, which was really built around, believe it or not, it was actually a hospitality repositioning project to start. And we were fortunate to be on the front lines of that in the early days of that project. In fact, I got lucky enough to work on phase two of it as I started here at the firm. It goes back that far when we really got involved with it. But that's a different kind of model. But yet, you know, you're still trying to drive home an experience. And this one was imagined and created versus something like in Putamita with Naviva, where you're literally, you know, you're relying on the heritage and culture that exists.

Michael Russell:

What would you call Naviva? You know, there's a lot of buzzwords these days, like experiential lodging or unique stays. I'm not really sure how to define what I'm seeing here. What would you call it?

Scott LaMont:

Yeah, and I'm not a big fan of labels, whether you call it an eco resort, I've heard that term thrown around. I mean, that that hit to me has been overused. I think it's just a it's a unique destination that one that you have to see and appreciate to really uh take it in for what it is. And, you know, those type of developments and opportunities is what is is exciting about where the market is heading these days, particularly on the boutique side where folks are beginning to recognize leaning into that local identity, whether and that can translate into an urban hotel, Michael, and you can pick your city, but leaning into that to create, you know, that unique destination that is that is not replicable to another marketplace at a one-for-one. And that's why people can make those choices. Travelers at that level have choices to make. They could they could easily visit the Bahamas or they could move, you know, into the Maldives and go experience something completely different. But you're offering them something where they know they're going to truly be in an immersive environment.

Michael Russell:

Hey guys, quick favor if this episode is helping you, text it to one friend who is either trying to buy a hotel or owns and operates one already. Sharing the show is the best way you can support what we're building here. Now, back to the episode. Yeah, well, immersive is a way to describe what I'm seeing here online.

Scott LaMont:

What is unique about that, though, which is a trend that we're seeing in the development of these types of hotels, is the the price barrier is not really the barrier. And in fact, there's also been, you know, growing trends around, I'll call it the excursions or the other experiences that lay on beyond just the destination. Um, and that, you know, traveler is willing to spend and willing to invest on that so that they get, you know, again, that expanded experience, which is great for the operators because it extends their stay. Someone has a reason to want to stay maybe two or three or four more days because they want to take that mountain bike journey or, you know, that um trip down the waterway or you know, those excursions that come along with it so that they can again truly appreciate the the destination for what it is.

Michael Russell:

Yeah. Well, let's let's unpack that a little bit because you know, obviously, everyone, if they had a magic wand, they would pick the perfect location with just the right amount of nearby attractions that everyone would want to go there, but that it would still be empty enough to where it's not overwhelming and ruining the experience. But what you're describing is that resort developers are incorporating experiences into their planning. And that's right. I guess, like how how can you give us an example of how one would do that?

Scott LaMont:

Yeah, I mean, it's a look at a project that we're working on that that is still on the boards and a project that we're doing in in Pennsylvania. Actually, we're tapping into all of the local resources in the marketplace that are there and you know, existing nature trails, things that are bigger than the destinations themselves, right? Regional farming, all these different aspects that all of a sudden, you know, hoteliers have the opportunity to look beyond their limits of their property and the four walls that they're building and think about, you know, well, why is this place special and what are we offering that is that is unique? And then how can we bring that to our guests in a convenient way? And this really goes back to something that I'm I feel pretty strongly about too, which is really leaning back into hospitality as a whole. You know, we live in a world with so much technology, with with, you know, you're getting your room, you're check-in online, you know, all those different things. But at the end of the day, having someone that is really there to help curate that and being able to speak to the concierge who maybe has worked at that hotel for 35 years or or whatnot, and be able to help you curate that. It just adds so much more depth to the experience. It boils down to some of those basic elements that truly, you know, uh operated any level of hospitality, whether you're in the upper end of the market with a four seasons Naviva type product or an Amon top product, or you're really in, you know, just your standard resort destination that might be more of a family all inclusive. You know, it really runs that gamut because that at the end of the day is what we're trying to deliver. And it doesn't have to be five star to deliver it.

Michael Russell:

Well, okay, let's let's circle back with like the Pennsylvania property, for example. You you mentioned there's nearby attractions, there's mountain biking and things. As an architect, how would you program the design of the facility so that it encompasses some of that experiential feeling that associates with the nearby attractions?

Scott LaMont:

Yeah. It's first of all, doing your homework into the place that you're working in and understanding what community assets are there that set it apart, right? And, you know, looking at another project that we're working on in the Texas marketplace that could integrate into existing waterway experiences that are just literally a hop skip at a jump from the front door of an urban hotel, but broaden that thinking. And so, from a design perspective, we want to plan for that. We want to create an opportunity for guests to know, okay, well, I'm going to check out a bike or borrow a bike from the hotel. And we want to be able to make sure that that's visible and accessible and feels natural and a welcoming part of the experience so that I can go out and journey through that. It also mind me being thoughtful and working with the operations team to be definitive around how we want to lay that out for them and say, okay, they're going to enter in this way, they're going to go through that experience, we're going to send them down. It's like curating it for them in a way so that they can really begin to understand the value. As a firm with experiences all over, oftentimes we get to come into places and see things through a different lens. Um, we see this a lot in repositioning work, Michael, where operators have been managing the same asset for many, many years, but they've they've gotten used to managing in a certain way or operating in a certain way. And they may be missing some of the unique opportunities that we can kind of come in as sort of that outside point of view and say, but gosh, did you realize that this is right here and we're not tapping into that? And we talk a lot about local authenticity, and then it could be as simple as like, why are we serving Starbucks coffee in the lobby when you have one of the best coffee beaneries right around the corner from your hotel that you could now extend that partnership with and bring them in to really make somebody feel like, hey, I may be in Baltimore, but I'm getting this really cool, unique thing that I can't get anywhere else. And it just again elevates that experience a little bit more. And that's it's odd to hear a landscape architect talk about those type of things. But I think the reason that that we speak about it is because we see the bigger picture. You know, we're not coming in looking specifically at like, well, how are we going to retrofit those rooms to put a new five fixture bathroom in, or, you know, how are we going to redesign the restaurant to maximize F and B. You know, we're looking at the global picture from a planning perspective all the way down to, you know, the implementation of how we can change that front door experience or that arrival experience, which to me is one of the most fundamentally important components of any hotel.

Michael Russell:

Yeah. You know, what you're describing, it it sometimes can be tough to articulate because the emotional reaction that people have to design is it's personal and to each person, it's individual. And it's it's not always something that you can just plan how exactly someone is going to feel. But I don't know how to describe this word, but it's it's just it's an emotional reaction to being in the space when you're there. But I do, I'll give you a good example of what you're saying and how it resonates with me because so we hired an excellent architecture firm who designed what we call the prototype hostel location in Maui. And what she was able to do, very much to what you're describing, is program how is someone gonna feel when they open the door? What are they first going to see? What are they gonna be able to touch? And what is the objective of the experience that we're trying to create? Now, this being a hostel, very different than a luxury eco resort in Puntamita, Mexico. What we were trying to accomplish was social interaction. And so it's interesting. She took our existing floor plan and the route in which people walk through the hostel and she routed them so that they were forced to have to come from the second floor down to the first floor so that everyone who walks down from the second floor to exit the building is forced to enter the lobby. And that was intentional because oftentimes during the lobby, we're we're hosting events, we're having margarita parties, we're doing karaoke night, there's probably like maybe there's like a potluck or something that is communal in nature. And if someone's got an escape route, so to speak, quote unquote escape route, then they're gonna avoid being social. But if they have to go in the lobby, and sure enough, there's gonna be what we call an aloha ambassador who's down there who's like, hey, you want to join us? Come on, like know their name, like we put all this intention. So the programming you described like local coffee, like that's not exactly the same example I'm describing, but the intent is it's creating an experience that is is gonna be memorable to that specific location. And so when an architect, a landscape, landscape architect is is programming this stuff, it's not always tangible, it's more just a sense of feeling, belonging, association. So that's what I took away from what you were saying when I related to learning so on.

Scott LaMont:

And my my hats off to you with your project because that seems to be spot on with at least my philosophy around this. I mean, and and I do think there are tangible benefits that come from that, right? You know, we talk about the choreography choreography of those first few moments of arriving to those properties. If you get that right, if you tell the right story and you make someone feel welcome and you make them part of that experience, they will forgive a lot. Like that will set the tone for the destination, the experience that you're gonna have. And to us, we talk about that even in some of our you know, larger planning projects, like when we were master planning putamita, that begins at the airport, right? And you know, that whole journey in is part of that story. And it's it's just such a critically important. Component on it. And you said it yourself, there's an emotional aspect that's kind of hard to put your finger on. But when you get it right, by the time you've gotten to your room, you're already loving the space and the place. And you want to learn more and you want to engage more. And that is one of the best opportunities we have as designers and as operators to really deliver the promise to the guest. And if we can do that in those first few moments, you're going to find that the end result is going to translate. So maybe instead of dropping my bags and ordering delivery dudes or, you know, running down the block to the restaurant I saw on the way in, I'm going to circle back to that lobby and I'm actually going to go feel comfortable hanging out in the lobby bar or maybe go grab some dinner and find myself immersed in that environment because it invited me into that space. There's a direct translation to ROI on that, right? And so I think while it is an emotional aspect to it, it does translate into good business sense. And especially in repositioning projects like you're describing, that experience is so critically important. Cause if it's one thing, and we get asked this all the time when we do either talks like this or questions about, you know, advice that we can give owners and operators. It's like when a hotel is operated for a period of time, things tend to get forgotten in terms of what was truly that hospit that hospitality for it experience. And then maybe a valet vendor that all of a sudden has kind of grown his footprint three times bigger than it really should be, that dominates the front door of an experience. And, you know, it just over the years, everyone's just gotten used to it. And coming in with that fresh set of eyes and say, Why are we doing that? You're taking away your best asset and that best moment that you're going to have with the guest. And so those types of moves are very, very intentional and I think make a tremendous impact on the guest impression.

Michael Russell:

Yeah. So you you touched upon ROI. So there's there's two sides to this coin. Look, if we're all if we're the four seasons or the St. Regis and we've got, let's just call it unlimited supply of funds. I mean, everything's relative. So perhaps not unlimited. But the point being is it's very easy for luxury large brands to just throw money at a problem and fix it. But if you're scrappy and you're an independent operator like myself, you don't have unlimited budget. And so on the one side, you want to develop this incredible experience, right? The goal is to just wow, have a wow factor for your guest. But like I said, the other side of that coin is really thinking through the financial implications of your decisions. So I want you to help as a boutique hotel owner, I want you to imagine, you know, walking a property with an investor. And maybe what's an example of a design, a design decision that oftentimes hotel investors underestimate that maybe it it affects NOI the most, but it's it's often not thought of.

Scott LaMont:

Yeah. Well, I I guess two things that come to my mind in hearing the question, you know, one is that good design does not have to be expensive, right? And and and I translate that to thoughtful design, right? Space planning, thoughtful movement as you describe the curation of your guest experience and navigating that. You know, it didn't cost you any more money to create that than is if you would have said, oh, we're gonna put in, you know, the top-level marble that we can get in these beautiful wood stairs. That's not the point. The point is the experience that you're trying to create. So we don't have to start with the budget as being the barrier or the goal around, you know, developing those experiences. But what we do look for on those properties that where we are trying to be more thoughtful, where every move matters so much, is to try to find flexibility in those spaces and look at how they can be used differently. Like you mentioned, your lobby that might be being programmed for an event. Like that's a great example of a space that could be a bypass space for certain parts of the day, but also times where it can actually generate revenue on its own. We design a lot, and this happens significantly on resorts where there's maybe some outdoor components that maybe in the past had been an afterthought or a little bit of outdoor dining or a courtyard space where we say, well, look, we do this a little bit differently and maybe organize it in a different way. We can host an event over here on the nights that we're not really full with with tables, tabletops for a restaurant, but host a private event and still operate our FB operation over here. And now you've created a revenue stream that maybe didn't exist before through the same space that you were going to build anyway, right? And so thinking about it in that capacity and and and really leaning into the programming part of it can be good. So, I mean, the short answer to that is like programming and flexibility and and having your eyes on that and looking for those underutilized moments, especially with existing properties too, you know, where those there's those underutilized spaces that all of a sudden can be thought through in a different way. And to me, that's part of the fun. And I and I joke with a lot of our clients and sometimes they think that we're like it's a sales pitch, but it's genuine. Like we love those challenges, you know. I love to go into those old hotels and trying to find those nuances because candidly, and you've probably experienced this on your own travel uh experiences, it's those shoulder moments, right? It's those like little unique spaces where a lot of those great memories are made. You've got your showstopper moments if you're in like the Naviva with the big vista and the view, but sometimes it's those little off size, off site moments where you're just like, wow, that was really cool. I caught up on my messages there and sat at this great area and had a coffee, and it just totally transformed my impression of what this hotel could be.

Michael Russell:

Quick break. If you're not using AI for your business, you're going to get left behind. And if you're overwhelmed by it or don't know where to start, you need to check out Jake Heller's AI for CRE collective community. I'm a paying member and it has been a game changer for me. Jake shows you exactly which tools matter for commercial real estate and how to use them to underwrite faster, tighten up operations, automate the busy work, and make much better decisions. The trainings are simple. The community is active, and you can bring your real questions to the weekly round table and get direct feedback. There's a link in the show notes that gets you your first week free. Full transparency, it's an affiliate link. So I do get a small kickback if you join, which helps me keep creating episodes like this. Check it out after the show. Yeah. Okay. Well, let's peel it back even a little bit more. Let's let's go to like the acquisition stage. And if you're looking at the property from the lens of uh an architect or designer, you're gonna evaluate a property. Let's say, let's say an investor brings you on early into a deal. Maybe what are some of the, I don't know, some of the cues, maybe some of the um environmental or cultural or experiential things that you can identify that that that might lead you to believe, hey, this this property has real potential.

Scott LaMont:

Well, there's a couple, a couple things to to chat about there. And and we are fortunate enough to be brought in oftentimes when properties are being evaluated by a lot of our long-term clients who, you know, or may own multiple assets within a portfolio where they might say, we need to look at three or four of these different assets. Number one, we start with kind of a benchmarking approach. You know, we begin to understand what the competitive set is out there that's offering that helps this property and particularly stand apart. It's important to have that foundation of knowledge so that, you know, you're beginning from a from a place of understanding with a property that you're working at. And then it's looking for opportunities of things that haven't been thought through and whether it's trying to activate spaces that that aren't activated and then thinking about what programming that that could bring. There could be a large area where there's just a lawn that's interstitial space that we could figure out a way to turning it into a venue that might be appropriate to host a wedding or some sort of outdoor party, which could be a completely different revenue stream for a hotel that may never have had it. Or in the cases of some of the larger resorts, and this is when you get into kind of like your bigger resorts where there's a lot of land to work with, and they say, well, okay, you've got an 18-hole golf course and you might have this giant practice area. You know, how can we rethink that for today's guest and create something that is really more resort-friendly, that is going to be something that me and my buddies are going to want to go to after dinner and mess around with for about 45 minutes and have a few more cocktails while playing some barefoot golf or putting on a nice putting course or something to that effect, you know, looking for those opportunities that are unique and different and bringing that to the table with kind of a very clear, no bias, so to speak, in terms of what we want to try to accomplish, but lay out a lot of options and alternatives, and then we can then see where things can start to work better. The last piece of it, too, is really looking for things that are just not getting it done, where there might be a resort or a development that might have space that's not working and we know it's not working. And, you know, so what is missing? Is there a wellness component that can be leveraged that is not being thought about in the right way? Or do we have a spa that was designed for the late 90s that needs to be rethought and more brought up to speed with what today's guest and traveler is going to want to experience? So it's kind of looking at it through that holistic lens, but doing it in a way that where the sky's the limit. Because especially in the early days and in incredibly important in the pre-acquisition stage, you know, because then you can begin to say, okay, well, these are some of the improvements from an ownership side that we can make on day one. These might be improvements that could be made over a capital expenditure over a certain period of time. And, you know, helping them curate and narrate that story of where those opportunities are happen, you know, long before we're we're picking up markers and pens and starting to draw.

Michael Russell:

Yeah. So you mentioned wellness, and I'm curious to get your thoughts because it seems like that is another one of those buzzwords. But there's probably some real merit to this that wellness is a growing industry. From your perspective, how important is it to design wellness into resorts or hotels moving forward?

Scott LaMont:

Well, it's clearly an expectation, whereas it was a nice to have, you know, five, 10 years ago where it was kind of really first came on the scene as being like, oh, we're really going to think about this. Now it's a true expectation. And that translates everything from the menus and FB experiences to the types of facilities that we're offering the guests in terms of recreation and fitness, but also in that tranquil experience to get away. I mean, again, why are we going into a hospitality experience or to a resort hotel in particular? You know, we want to rejuvenate a bit, you know, trying to find a platform for which it is unique to that destination that makes it holistic. And it's not just about getting the mani petty and getting the nice massage and doing the traditional spa that you might have. You know, it might be, you know, a more family-oriented item where you're able to really sit down and and have a harvest meal that was all generated from local farmers and local purveyors that, you know, give you something that's just a little more feeding of the soul, right? And a little and not necessarily just getting that treatment.

Michael Russell:

Do you have any experiences that you can share that, you know, where maybe you didn't see eye to eye with an owner? And I imagine some of these owners you've worked with, they're successful for a reason. They're probably strong-willed and assertive. Have you ever had an experience where you guys just didn't see eye to eye? And how did you overcome that?

Scott LaMont:

I mean, first of all, we welcome that because, you know, especially with properties where ownership may have been involved for a period of time and they're like, well, no, we don't do it that way. And that's it's almost like the challenge. And part of it is, you know, we uh we pride ourselves, I think, on being good collaborators because we're not black cape designers. That's not our ethos. That's not kind of who we are. You know, we come in as team players, we want to be an extension of the owner, but we're also hired because we bring in a level of expertise and and vision that we, you know, remind our clients and our owners that they may not like our opinion on something, but it's important that we at least explore it. And what I found in those situations where you know we may have a disagreement on an approach, we win, we win some, we lose some. But as long as we're having a healthy dialogue about how we're getting there, and we're not just saying, okay, nope, hands off, then we're going to get to a better end result. Because if an owner is truly holding on to something that they feel really strongly about, then that's communicating to something us as designers that we need to learn from. We need to learn is it, okay, they know this market, they know their property. We need to tap into that and figure out how do we leverage that experience and not being afraid to say, well, we don't think that's a great idea. And how about this? And when we're able to do it in a complimentary way, um, it's really, it becomes a real, a real fun experience. And and the one thing that really comes to mind, and it's just a it's a fun moment that that we had on a property. I wouldn't say it was a disagreement because I think we were all in agreement with what we were trying to accomplish was when MSD came in and acquired the Boca Ratone, which is a project that I had worked on for many, many years, long before becoming CEO of EDSA, but for many years as a junior designer at the firm all the way on. And we're walking the property and we were trying to determine kind of like how to orient things and where to put different assets. And the the short story on that is we were able to take down a very, very much aged out conference center and bring in a very strong aquatic club to change a bit of the impression of the of the vibe of the hotel and a little bit of the demographic of the hotel. And we were having a conversation as we were walking and they were like debating on where to put the pool bar. And it was like, I know exactly where we need to put the pool bar. The pool bar is gonna go right where the dumpster is, right here, you know, in the back of the service area of this convincing space that believe it or not, once we take these trees down and open up that vista, there's a view here. And everybody's looking at us like we're crazy, like we're really gonna put the pool bar where the where the dumpster is. But if you overlay that today with this an image from the late 90s of the early 2000s, it's exactly where it sits.

Michael Russell:

So you're all over the world. And for what I understand, you had a client in, I think it was Shanghai. And as the story goes, there's these junk boats that sit within the marina. You know, these Chinese junk boats are kind of an eyesore, right? And the owner wanted those things removed, like, let's get all the old stuff out of there. And I think the goal was well to preserve some of that authenticity, that those junk boats are the exact reason why people are gonna find that experience memorable. And so by getting rid of them, then you're just be commoditizing the experience, but by keeping them, it's that bespoke experience of oh wow, this is memorable. Yeah.

Scott LaMont:

Well, and and I I don't have any idea how you found that story, but that that that is very much a true story. It was actually in Xi Minh, was where that where that actually took place. And you know, we were helping and actually working for the local government on the kind of the opposite side of the river from the main downtown. And because there was no other real infrastructure for us to travel around, so nobody could see the site from the water site, they took us out on these junk boats. And I say us, I was traveling with some some good friends of mine, and they were architects and and marine engineers, and we were having the time of our lives riding on these boats and really feeling immersed in this culture that has been there for hundreds and hundreds of years. And, you know, they're they're the chairman of the group that we were working with, it was just like, well, forget all of this, it's all gonna go away. And and we were truly troubled by that. And I have to applaud them that they took the time to listen to us as to why and tried to see it through our lens. And, you know, we were we were successful in that case of convincing them that there was something really magic about it, you know. And again, this goes back to, you know, you see it every day, you're used to it, you just don't think of it in that context. And then people come down and then like us, which were complete foreigners, we're all from the US, and you know, we'd never seen anything like it. And it was so unique and the colors and the rich as dilapidated and as worn down as they were, the aquamarine towers and the bright red holes. You couldn't recreate it if you tried. And leveraging that as part of the identity was really what it was all about. And then at the end of the presentation, we were all a little bit emotional about it because they got the mayor on board and they all of a sudden they saw their own city through a different lens and a different light. So kudos for digging that one up. That's a good memory.

Michael Russell:

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you talk about culture, and you know what really what culture is is just history that's active, right? It's a it's a compilation of accumulated experiences that are just actively displayed. That's what culture is, whether it's food or if it's just the the look and feel of physical shape of buildings. So sometimes it's if you really want to see like well, what's gonna resonate with people, walk and live and feel and like just live in the experience for a little bit and and see what people are just observe what people are taking photos of. That's gonna give you a good clue what's important to people.

Scott LaMont:

Well, and I tell that to a lot of our young team members who, you know, are are getting the opportunity to travel for the first time and visit sites, you know. I mean, never in my wildest dreams would I have envisioned that landscape architecture would take me around the world 89 to 90 plus times and visiting all the places that we visited. But it influences you in a profound way when you're able to really lean into that. And the number one thing we always see is do not take the guided tour. The guided tour is gonna be what they want you to see. It's gonna be like, okay, you know, we're gonna focus you here, focus you there, and take you through that experience. It's like, you know, get off the beaten path a little bit and do a little exploration because what you're gonna learn in those moments are gonna impact you a lot in a much more significant way than you know what the tourism board might want you to see. And that gets to the true heart of what you know, the destination and the culture can really be about. And for many years I had an opportunity to work in Asia, and that was one of my favorite things is just veering off from the handlers, you know, and just they'd be like, Well, where were the where are they going? And we're like, we're going down this block. We smell something, somebody's cooking down here. We want to go check it out. Yeah. And then we end up eating dinner on the street with some street food while they had some you know really fancy thing planned for the whole design team. But we're like, this is getting to be the this is what's authentic about this. Like, let's bring this back to what we're trying to do. Because if you're a visitor, you know, that might be coming in from Singapore or from Australia and you're visiting this part of the world, you know, you you can get a fancy dinner anywhere you want. But this this guy cooking on his little homemade grill and you're sitting on a mop bucket, you know, that's an experience you can't replicate. We all enjoy, you know, those opportunities to explore and get that communal meal and lean into it. And it's fun when we can bring that into a property. I mean, I could think of a property that we did here in Florida, the high at Coconut Point, where we programmed that into the hotel and we had built like a little bit of a water park and really helped that hotel kind of reimagine what was some underutilized space on the property. But that was a component of it, you know? And when those food trucks roll in and the kids are out there playing and families are are really enjoying what's happening, again, it's making memories, right? And it's unique to that destination and that location. And that's something that's really special.

Michael Russell:

Yeah. Yeah. I want to shift gears before we get too far along here because a lot of what we're talking about is all the fun stuff. And I think that this is the exciting stuff, this is the passion stuff. This is what gets me up in the morning, gets me pumped to go and be a hotel investor. The other side of that though is this is a business in which you got to maintain profitability. And sometimes what's overlooked, I think, is if you're just too focused on beautiful design and you're not equally invested in the right infrastructure, then you can experience massive headache down the line. I'd like to know kind of when you look at a project, what are maybe some examples of things that can fall apart easily? Like you might, you might have a beautiful design, but if you're not in implanting the correct infrastructure, then a couple of years down the line, owners are going to be having to pay for it tenfold and just maintenance and other issues.

Scott LaMont:

Yeah, I mean, there's a couple of really and it's a great point. And it's one that it isn't the pretty part of the conversation oftentimes. When we always love when our clients struggle the amount of money that they need to spend before the guest sees the first thing. But it is an important component there component. There's there's two sides to it. One, particularly here in in coastal regions like where we are here in Fort Lauderdale and other parts of the world where we've got to make investments in resiliency. And you know, we have to plan for things like the sea level rise and climate comfort and understanding that while that may not be the first thing on the developer's mind, but we're like, listen, that seawall that is sitting at elevation four probably needs to come up to seven. And these are the things that need to happen, and here is why. Those are important components of it. And the flip side of it too is about being thoughtful in longer-term operational costs. And water is such an important part of our design thinking, particularly in landscape architecture and the places that we work. Water is currency in the Middle East, as you can probably imagine, many parts in the western part of the United States as well. And if we can help our client understand that they may make a more significant investment in a more sophisticated strategy around how they use water, it's gonna pay itself back in five and seven years. And then from then on, they're gonna be saving money for many, many, many, many years down the road versus taking, you know, a more you know, approach that may have been appropriate in the 1980s, where we're just gonna do whatever we need to do and get make sure it's all you know, big, green, and cheap. And they're gonna end up being spending, you know, a bloody fortune on water, number one, and and and letting so much of it go to waste when there are ways that we can use the proper infrastructure to capture, reuse, and revitalize with it in ways that you know we weren't able to do, or I shouldn't say that we weren't able to do, that weren't top of mind, you know, 20 years ago. And what's neat about this in today's world, and this we're drift a little bit into technology for a second, is now that data becomes a bit more easy to measure, and we're able to tell that story in a more definitive way to our clients so that they become, they can see the return on investment. And while, no, they may not want to write that check for, you know, uh half a million dollars or whatever that investment might be up front, we can actually really show it to them in black and white and say, okay, well, this is how this is going to translate over a four-year period, and this is gonna be a better uh investment for your long-term hold on this, or you're gonna add a significant amount of value in that infrastructure that you're developing that if you do want to transfer that hotel down the road or transact on that hotel down the road, you've now made a significant investment that has true value added to the property.

Michael Russell:

Yeah. Well, speaking of technology, more specifically AI, I'd like to know how is your firm using AI to maybe there's some design tools that you're using, but how are you doing so to improve hotel development and ultimately reduce risk for owners?

Scott LaMont:

Yeah, I mean, first short answer is we're leaning into it. And I think it's an important thing for for all of us in the industry to do is to lean into it. I mean, this is the single biggest change in technology that I think we've all seen since you know the computers or iPhones first kind of hit the street. Uh, it's a complete game changer. And so we're looking for new ways to integrate it into our practice. And I guess the best way I can describe it is there's the analytical side of it where we can leverage it for research and resources and data collection, which is really important when we're in conceptualizing and envisioning opportunity because there's so much more data at our fingertips than there ever has been before. We did this for a property just recently. I got a phone call from a good friend who's an investor and he was looking at a particular property. And, you know, he was like, Well, what do we think we need? And and I quickly did some searching within, you know, just a few minutes of looking at user feedback and guest reviews for the last five or six years on the hotel, just to kind of see what the word on the street. I didn't know the property, right? I just wanted to see what was the word on the street. And there were some real consistent themes that had evolved there that within five minutes, we had some data that we wouldn't have had 10 years ago. We would have never been able to ascertain that kind of information like that, right? So that's an important part of it. On the design side itself, the tools that we use in design are really twofold. One is the analytical tools that allow us to measure, like we were just describing, around water and climate comfort, where we can demonstrate, even like, and I'll give you an example of a program that we use where we're maybe configuring multiple buildings and we can show the client if we do this, we can create a more comfortable climate environment that's gonna encourage people to be in the outdoor spaces. So when you develop that outdoor terrace that you might want to host an event at, we're gonna lower the ambient temperature by a few degrees because of the way we're gonna orient this. And that's very tangible and easy for us to measure and show. And that's a powerful, uh, compelling tool to them to say, okay, well, we were worried about doing outdoor weddings in August, but now you're telling me that we can do that and it won't be 92 degrees, it'll be 85 degrees. Okay, that's something that's different, you know, and there's those types of things we give the operators the ability to make much more sound business decisions based on really good design performance data. The the last component of that really is the creative aspect of it. Whereas it's an it's a it's a tool in our toolbox. It by no means replaces the traditional design process that we go undergo, but we do leverage it as an opportunity to jumpstart creativity and help us. Back in the day, you may have gone to Google for a mood board and for an image to try to find what you're trying to convey. You know, now with the right guidance and the experience, you're able to help visualize that much, much quicker in the design process for our clients so that they can truly understand what it is that we're trying to we're trying to tell them or explain to them. So all of these things work together, but then trying to figure out the responsible way to do that, protect the data, the proprietary data that needs to be protected, but bring it forth in a way that really benefits the project.

Michael Russell:

Yeah. I mean, you just kind of package that all together really well, that they do go hand in hand. And as we kind of wrap this up here, in closing, is I'd like to know maybe what's what's a piece of tactical advice that you could give, let's just say a first-time hotel investor about design and about placemaking and about incorporating all of the lessons that we learned today.

Scott LaMont:

I think one is I think and this is uh may sound a little bit cliched, but be yourself in the property that you're you're looking at. And, you know, don't necessarily try to aspire or benchmark to be what may be the next thing down the block and and really try to find out what makes your property special and unique. You know, as we said before, good design does not have to be expensive. And if you're making, you know, a small investment in a first-time development or property, maybe a small Bohotique hotel, um, that's just such an important part of it. And then, you know, when you look at how you're gonna make those first moves, prioritize that guest experience, prioritize that first few moments. I loved your movie analogy because we use the word choreography a lot. And I think that's so critically important. And then look for those spaces where you're able to capitalize on new revenue streams that maybe hadn't been thought about in the past. And they don't have to be significant, but they have to be, you know, a creative to the experience and and help enhance the overall identity and brand that hopefully is driven by an authentic sense of place.

Michael Russell:

Yeah. Scott, this has been incredible. Thank you for sharing your experience and your perspective. For our listeners who want to follow your work or learn more about EDSA, where should they go?

Scott LaMont:

Well, certainly visit us on our website or EDSAplan.com or follow us on social media and learn a bit more about the team, or don't ever hesitate to reach out to myself or any one of our partners. We're here to help.

Michael Russell:

Cool. Thanks everyone for tuning in. I am Michael Russell, and this is the Hotel Investor Playbook. We'll see you again next time. Aloha.